All Episodes: Ergo Proxy Companion Viewing Guide
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Someone Like You
This episode too is about love. But this time, instead of being about how to love another, it is about how to be loved or how to love yourself.
It's about acceptance and suicide.
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Re-L speaks of the world as being somehow fundamentally connected to her. That when she dies, it would die with her. Philosophically it's impossible to prove what it's like when you stop existing..... and it is true, at least for me, that self shapes the world just as the world can help shape the self. I believe it is George Berkeley and Hume that speak of how important perception and mind are in comparison to external reality, and indeed whether external reality is even existent or even possible to understood.
For conveniences' sake, I'll write the sequence of events in order.
Re-L sees the lake glittering, and goes to investigate it. While she's there she gets the feeling she is being watched.
Ophelia-Dome-Proxy, as Re-L, goes to the Rabbit and set it adrift so they are trapped in the dome.
Re-L returns, complains, asks for Ginger Ale, and leaves to stand watch without eating.
Vincent eats Pino's food.
Doppelganger visits Vincent and is given Ginger Ale.
Doppelganger visits Re-L, gives Ginger Ale, and is pushed off the roof when it approaches Re-L too eagerly. It repeats lines it has heard earlier like Echo from Narcissus. When it is turned away, it stops being interested in tricking Re-L and turns its attention to Vincent and Pino.
I think it is the real Re-L that gets locked in the storage room, the fake Re-L falls to the ground (hoping to get Vincent's attention and care).
The real Re-L confronts the real Vincent on the roof, then runs off to try and stop the doppelganger Proxy.
Instead she is captured by the Doppelganger as Vincent which takes Pino and Re-L to the lake. It decides to kill off Re-L since she is useless to it (like the rest of the dome's citizens) and hopes to gain Pino's attention. However, Pino realizes it is a fake and it decides to kill off Pino too, but fails because Pino is an autoreiv. (Please note that "kill off" is probably closer to preserve -- the way the other dome citizens were preserved.)
Meanwhile Vincent leaves the roof and goes looking for the others. He finds the ship is gone. Vincent then heads to the lake and confronts the Doppelganger.
Pino has already rescued Re-L from the lake, but Vincent finds doppelganger Re-L.
They have their discussions in the lake while Re-L and Pino watch from the banks.
The Doppelganger has reasons for each of its tricks. At first it is feeling out which person to try to replace and gain the love of another. It realizes replacing Vincent for Re-L is not going to work, (Re-L isn't very loving) then tries to replace Vincent for Pino, but is foiled again, (Pino knows what is going on and is an autoreiv). Next, it succeeds in securing Vincent's love, but, in anger or in sadness or in Awakening, it tries to kill Vincent.
The Doppelganger is never seen in its own body. It is only shown as it takes on the form of Re-L or Vincent... It has no form but those it mimics.
Vincent (as Ergo) sees an aerial view of the city as it used to be, while the Doppelganger speaks of its own past and Vincent re-lives his own in parallel: This seems such a small, inconsequencial sequence of events, but it speaks volumes to me. Once again the doppelganger has no past of its own, only able to express itself through Vincent's memories. Also, it speaks to me about how people are miraculously able to comprehend so much and so intimately, despite differences in lives, opinions, pasts, and perceptions. Vincent and the doppelganger both experienced entirely different lives until this moment, and yet they both underwent some of the same trials and understand the same emotions.... and so the words of the Doppelganger match Vincent's own experiences enough to bring then to light.
The words it uses are somewhat extreme and overstated, but if you take it with a healthy dose of re-interpretation and put it into philosophical contexts it becomes very interesting to me.
"No matter where we go, I'll never be accepted."
Are we ever accepted by anyone else? Or do we all ultimately use each other for our own benefits? Do we do things for pure altruism, or do we just seek the good things that result from helping one another; enjoying company, and seeking support. Do we support each other only because we hope for the support to be returned? Do we communicate so that we might learn and have fun, rather than for the sake of the other? If talking to each other wasn't fun or interesting and didn't mean friendship, would we still assist each other just because it was "the right thing to do"?
"This is my territory. An eternity of solitude"
What if your very nature is one that leaves you lonely and unloved.
"Without communication. Without understanding. Why am I this way?"
We all try to communicate, but we can never communicate perfectly. We all try to understand, but we can never understand completely. Both in the sending and in the receiving, we cannot do so, no matter how we try. The Doppelganger's own words are distorted and reinterpreted to fit Vincent's own experience when he hears them. Everyone can only understand another through their own lens, never truly understanding from the perspective of the one they seek to understand.
"Why can't I be something worthy of love and acceptance?"
If you don't believe yourself to be lovable and if you do not respect yourself, then very often others will not either. What can you do? How can you change yourself? How can you become someone different when you are who you are? What if who you are, is someone that cannot change themselves?
"I found if I pretended to be someone else, I could be loved."
And what if you do change yourself? We play these social games where we bend and hide parts of ourselves when we interact. It makes us "more loved" to do so, but really it is a social dance of ranking more than love at that point.
"But after awhile I realized, the person they loved wasn't me."
Even though we get so very used to acting, and it becomes a part of who we are, it isn't really our true selves. And so, to change yourself for the sake of other's love, is meaningless. Even if you could do it perfectly. Even if you could replace seamlessly that of someone they loved, it would be meaningless.
"I am no one. Therefore I am loved by no one."
If you try to be someone else in order to be loved, you cannot be loved. Yet if you don't try to be someone else, how can you compare to the "more perfect" version of yourself? What if you are not loved for who you are in the first place?
"And so I decided to end myself. But even if we want to end ourselves, we can't."
To change yourself, or to want to be someone else, is a form of ending yourself. But if it isn't in you already, to be someone else, then how can you?
"So we ended the others. For in then we found reflections of ourselves."
In some ways, the only way to be someone else, is to change your surroundings. A lot of people push others away from themselves in order to try and "end" themselves. And if they do... kill themselves... then they, in a way, kill those around them as well. Whether we try to or not, the half-versions of ourselves that are understood by others, becomes a part of them. We rub off on each other and we absorb small bits of the people around us. We reflect each other in our actions and thoughts. We see each other in each other because we really do pass traits and pieces of what makes us "us" on to our friends and associates and acquaintances. It can be habits and modes of expression. It can be meanings and viewpoints. But we really do pick up and give away bits of life wherever we go.
"It didn't work. In the end, the only one left was the one we wished to be rid of."
Trying to push others away just leaves you alone with yourself and makes you believe your problems are unbearable as they make up what remains of your entire world.
"That radiance. Through you, I can finally end myself. Let us end it. You and I, together."
Until, eventually, you convince yourself that death and escape is the best option. One that everyone would want.
"From birth to death the story evolves. The complete picture of who we are is only clear when our story comes to an end. So you might as well take this opportunity to skip to the end."
It is strange to realize that we are never the same person for long. We are growing and changing and maturing all the time. But that means that we literally stop being who we are... all the time. We roughly understand who we used to be, but we are no longer that person. And we will no longer be "me" a few months or years from now. It is strange and frightening how true this is. What if we become something we hate? What if we do something terrible, and worse, what if we never realize it? How can we tell? After all, the only way we can judge ourselves, is by ourselves. And what if we are wrong? What if we are wrong right now? There is no way to tell. We must be, because we keep changing, and even if one of those versions is right, that means that most of them are wrong. We die over and over again, and we never even notice it happening as we change and grow and reform what makes us "us."
"You understand now, don't you? You don't get to be with anyone. The best thing we can do for everyone is disappear forever." If you are consumed with worry for what is best for everyone else, then you can never please them perfectly. The only way that path leads is to surrender. You must find a reason within yourself to live. That reason can be to serve others as best you can, but you cannot base your existence on someone else's acceptance. They can never know you for one. You can never know them and never completely satisfy them either. But also, you have to find a greater reason to live than external opinions. It has to come from within you, or from something greater than you. A god. An ideal. A purpose. A reason. A quest. A question. "A grave. So that we are never lonely."
This makes me think of attempts to bury emotions and escape them. More literally, what has happened is the Proxy has killed or put in stasis everyone that lived in their dome. They lie, frozen in time, sleeping beneath the waters of the lake.
"You're just like me. You bring misery to everyone around you. This way is better. This way they don't suffer."
Believing that you are so worthless that all you do is harm those around you is awful. But believing that it's better to disappear so they don't suffer is worse. Instead of trying to fix the problem, you give up. Instead of trying to change yourself or do something good, you try to take leave of the problem altogether. Not to mention how little faith you have in everyone else. You act like they are forced to suffer. They have control over their own lives, and can choose how they want to live them. Taking that away from them and saying they are so incapable of dealing with the way they choose to live their own lives is self-centered and offensive. You aren't responsible for their happiness. Attempting to put them into an unfeeling coma is no way to treat them.
"I'm afraid of being alone. I'm afraid of not knowing what I am. But worse I'm afraid of finding out. And the people I want to be with will die because they are with me. If that's what I am, I might as well die too."
It is frightening to live. The future is unknown. Who you are is unknown. Who you will become is unknown. What fate will decree and give you and your friends is unknown. Is it worth it to continue on? Will there be happiness ever again? What if your finest moments have already come and gone? Why go on? The things we want most, can also destroy us. And yet... it is worth the risk.
"The proxy hoped to find acceptance from others by changing its acceptance to fill their needs. I used to think along similar lines to that. But then I met Re-L and Pino. And they came with me on this journey. And with them, I can maybe change who I really am. And if I change, maybe my understanding of life will change as well. Because of that I could never let myself die. Even if I am a Proxy."
This is it. The very things that make life fearful, are also the things that make it worth living. As we mature and change and grow, we will die. Over and over again. I do not know who I will be, or if I will be someone ... good or worthy. But with the unknown comes hope. Every fear we have, could instead be a blessing. Every time we think of a disaster, luck could smile upon us instead. We could become something twisted and ugly and insane, or we could exceed our own expectations and discover a wonderful life ahead of us. Life is never worth giving up on, no matter how bad it gets, because even if life is currently at the worst, with continued life there is that chance. That possibility. That something good could come of it.
Our lives can always change.
For better or worse.
Our perspectives can change.
And that can change everything, literally everything.
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////////////Reactions:
I don't know about you, but running around an empty city and taking advantage of everything you want whenever you want is kind of a fun dream to have. Free food! All the time in the world! No responsibilities and all of the items you ever wanted!
This is purely personal connections, but the times I can remember such a world being suggested are three: The wishes of an autistic(?) child's favorite dream in The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-time, the result of a mass migration to Jupiter in City, and and effects of a nuclear fallout which spares a small valley in Z for Zachariah. Recently I also heard read Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom and learned of the term "post-scarcity."
I found your analysis if this episode extremely entertaining and thoughtful. Some parts I came to the same conclusion such as you, but other parts I found a different analysis of. In response of this episode I looked up the background of Dai Dato who is a fan of Shakespeare. He uses some Shakespeare references This episode to connect Vincent and Re-L. (Hard to type this on my cracked mobile) in any case Dai Sato the way I see it encompasses Hamlet. The connection is there when you see OPHELIA The name of the supermarket and Re-L floating in water (another reference to how Ophelia of hamlet who drowned. She killed herself after going mad). There's a shot too where am Re-l is standing atop the supermarket and the logo OPHELIA is shown clear as day with her on it is also a reference. The imagery and allusion is deafening to me. I think your analysis couple this explains this episode a lot. Dai sato is drawing parallels of Hamlet and Orphelia to Re-l and Vincent. Orphelia the grocery store or the city perhaps houses a proxy who has been driven mad by not being accepted, much as Ophelia is driven mad by Hamlet in much a similar fashion.
ReplyDeleteOn a side note I like reading your annals, in a lot of ways to speak to the soul
I am aware of the Ophelia connection with the resemblance of Re-L when she is floating to a famous painting(?) of Ophelia, however I'm not familiar enough with the symbolism to draw any real meaning from it. I should probably read Hamlet again, but my impression is that you are spot on about Ophelia and the Proxy being driven mad from not being accepted.
DeleteI am glad to know you have read some of the annals and that it speaks to you in some way... I do try to write so as to reflect as perfectly as I can how I see things, even if I think it will be strange or naive or wrong or confused or unwelcome or otherwise unaccepted, it is still important to me to record it honestly and unrestrained.
Really late comment and feel slightly lame for commenting so late, but I just recently found your blog, and I am glad I did. Its so good to have a guide to heavy and confusing anime like Ergo Proxy. So I am still going to say this)
ReplyDeleteAlot of the philosophy used in Ergo Proxy base itself on the assumption that if your body Die, "You" Disappear. Cease to exist form this reality. But what if there is more than one reality? More than one way of existing? Multiple realities? Planes of existences? Multiple Selves? That there is no such thing as Death, only a door you go through. You move on, and come back, if the experience you wish to experience requires it.
Cause the idea of only one reality, one existence, and that everything that sums up you, cease the moment that body bites the dust, seems too sad and contracting.
Thank you.
Well, there is a lot to discuss about that... Ergo Proxy isn't completely about the assumption that once you die, everything that makes you up dies too - there is the one scene of the end of Kazkis Proxy where it is implied that he finds Sennex in the afterlife. And part of it is about whether it is possible for those who have been created artificially to have souls. How could the cogito infected auto-reivs like Pino have souls? And how could they not when they are just as "human" as the rest?
DeleteBut yes, I agree that Ergo Proxy doesn't really want to deal with questions of the afterlife. It seems very much focused on explaining this life with what we can find in this life, and seems content to say that the point of struggling on in this life is to do what we can, even if it is futile. That even though this life is dark in cold, that we still create beauty by loving and living and that is enough.
To be honest, I don't find the idea of one existence to be too sad and limited, but even if it were 'too sad,' it still might be the cruel truth. The show deals a lot with whether it is better to know and live with the truth, even if it is a harsh reality, or to live with a happier, but more false world.
"Lies make us happy." - Pino
"Questions are a burden upon others, answers are a burden upon yourself." - Administrative Bureau Collective
"If I had just done my job and walked away from this mess, I'd still have my life. But I asked my questions. That's my trouble with questions, I still don't know how to take them back." - Re-L
The show fully portrays that the truths are worse to live with than not knowing the answers or believing falsehoods, but it seems to still believe that it is better to live with them. Why that is so, isn't really answered.
Now whether there are more realities and ways of existing and planes of existence... they all seem possible, but unknown. Which means that if they exist, good. But if they don't, we have to face that and learn to live with it.
That's just my perspective, let me know what you think of it. =]
did vencint kill the cloner proxy or what? because there is no sign about the its faith
ReplyDeleteI assume yes because I think Proxies have to kill eachother when they encounter eachother unless their "Awakening pulse is stopped". But I do not know for sure because it is not clear.
ReplyDeleteHasta que encuentro una respuesta a este episodio.
ReplyDeleteRecién unas semanas comencé el anime, gracias al creador de este blog.