Ergo Proxy - 17: Never-Ending Battle/Terra Incognita

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Never-Ending Battle

Yet another episode that used to be one that I thought was mostly bland and now it is one of my favorites. There is a great deal of setup for the further episodes, a great deal of character development within all the characters, and a great deal of puzzling scenes that I've finally unraveled, and a great deal of allusions and consideration of the series's stronger themes.

I'm not going to spare much comment on the short-term plot that unfolds within the episode as you have already seen that, but I will note that I am pleased at how Raul drops his ID card at the very beginning. His haggard expression and bitter commentary made me believe that it was him doing it suicidal-ly and symbolically, and not at all because he was craftily leaving a trail which would be my first guess. Of course, later, it becomes obvious that that is exactly what he was doing. I'm happy to be fooled.

From the last episode, Re-L has indeed transformed. She is still the same person, with all of her cruelty and biting remarks, but she has become more. She now has another side to her. Her compassion shows when she compliments Pino and again when she says that she believes that she should do all she can to reunite with Pino merely because Pino has shown herself to be devoted. She would never have made such remarks before, or held such values before.

Vincent too, seems to have grown a bit. He treats his lost memory directly and without crippling fears. In fact, he resolutely puts forth an ultimatum. "If I can't be me anymore, I'd rather it end. You understand? I'll need you to kill me." I am somewhat of the same mind as Vincent.

It's no coincidence that this statement is made (commenting on Pino).
"The actions of Cogito infected autoreivs are governed by their emotions; their souls."
and then it cuts to Raul Creed. You think it is Pino for a second, seeing the robotic-like eyescan.
Raul Creed. Cogito. Emotions. Souls. Pino.
These are all one and the same story.
If you doubt this is intentional, I will humbly point you to the end of the episode, where Raul Creed and Pino play the piano.
"I can no longer resist the feelings that drive me to destroy. It was always him. He stole the light from this great civilization. He stole the destruction my despair hungered for. He stole everything from me. Pino."
Cut to Re-L, Vincent, Pino:
"You really like to play." "Yeah, I love it."
(mother of god. Just typing that out and realizing.... realizing the comparison. It rends my soul.)
Raul Creed gained his soul through despair. Pino gained hers through love. They both gained their souls through their attachment to one another. Once again, it is love that makes them whole. Without one another they would just be a madman and an infantile girl.

I have searched long and hard, and seen that a few others have done as I have, but for the life of me, I cannot find what piece of piano music Pino plays. I must therefore conclude that it is original, and intended to reference Mozart.

Update!

Thanks to "Thought Criminal" I think that Pino is playing a simplified version of Mozart's 1st movement of Eine Kleine Nachtmusik. Here is a piano version duet that shows some of the resemblance. And to add on to that, ThoughtCriminal noted that this plays in Alien, and the aliens here in Ergo Proxy bear resemblance in a few ways.

It is somewhat cute that Pino still makes the same mistake she made back in episode 6. "with Quinn she says, "You're like my Papa!" And Quinn says, "Hey, you mean I'm like your Mama, right?" And Pino responds cheerfully, "Oh, I don't know."" This time she calls the pregnant creature "daddy" and Vincent says "oh, not again!"

I do not want to say what conclusions you should come to, but I will list the facts.
The alien looking creatures are quadrupedal and bipedal.
They have a piano.
They do not recognize the language of Re-L and Vincent.
They are not proxies.
They have cave paintings of birth.
They can become pregnant.
They are dying of toxicity within their home.
The outside air is poisonous to them.

Most interesting, of course, is that they reproduce naturally. Re-L draws the connection between the cave paintings and the mother, but she can only think, "it can't be..." at the implications. Again, Re-L has only know and imagined reproduction through a dome city running a WombSys. In fact, all the civilizations so far have been produced by WombSys or been proxies. No wonder the idea is rather impossible for her to accept.

I am not sure at the way the air mixture is. "Strange, the poison should be thinning the farther out we go" suggests that it doesn't. My best guess is that it only changes at the mouth of the cave, where the dead creatures are, and that the toxic air is being artificially generated to keep them alive by the glowing blue machinery. I don't know why it is toxic, other than maybe that is the only compromise they can arrive at. Perhaps it has become a part of their biology, while still weakening them. I cannot say.

Back in Romdeau, the WombSys has fallen silent. The effects of the lost proxy are being felt, and all the accusations against the Administrative Bureau appears to have been well earned. Without shock Daedalus observes, "[He said] the usual. He said to ignore it and we'll deal with it later."
"I told you before, this sort of power would have significant implications."
The proxy is responsible for the WombSys's production. And the significant implications are not just potential ultimate power within the city if you control it, but also the very life of the city and the doom it faces without such power to sustain it. It isn't a crazy rant of Raul to be bent on revenge against the Proxy. The Proxy really did destroy the entirety of Romdeau. It really did steal "the light from this great civilization."

Humans have projected escape routes too. Raul is one step ahead of them however, as he looked at his own before delivering his speech.
In his last moment Raul Creed retraces the place he lost it all. The mall where his wife died. He even takes the heart shaped balloon Pino had on that fatal day.

Terra Incognita translates to "parts unknown" or "unmapped territory." It is also a reference to a short story in which the narrator hallucinates and slowly dies.

"Protocol must always be maintained." ... "And Chief, please accept my admiration of your conduct as a fellow citizen." That was Raul Creed's entire life. Now he is a fugitive. Why? His only crime was performing his role too well. Because he comes to realize that he has been set up since the beginning. His role was always that of a figurehead. He only served by keeping the people blindfolded and gagged. They are the supposed inheritors of the earth, merely waiting to repopulate. Except, that is not how they are being treated. No moves are being made to colonize or treat the outside illnesses. Instead they are held captive in their safe haven. He knows the truth.
[VIEW SPOILERS]

Terra Incognita
Raul knows the truth that they are not humans, but pseudohumans, dependent on a shepherd proxy rather than a full species that lives and dies by its own nature. They are not the seeds of humanity, but the prisoners held from being the next seeds of humanity. He is most infuriated that the dome knows this, but does nothing to thwart its fate. "Tell me what I've been doing this whole time!" "Romdeau is not your epitaph! The future of our fellow citizens is at stake. We can no longer afford your ignorance."
As the chief of security, Raul had to know the full picture. He had to know what all the other Bureaus were up to. He had to see that Romdeau was making no progress. He had to be a leader and to desire that they improve and survive. He had to see that it was all a cyclic facade from the start. In order to be the perfect chief, he had to struggle against his situation until he broke. In a city built to only maintain itself, any leader must fail. Any leader must have the traits of leadership to see and fix and control the whole picture. To prevent the city from steering towards destruction. But such qualities mean he must also strain to improve and must struggle at his bonds until he either exceeds them and is removed, or breaks and falls from grace.
"It isn't really surprising. No one appointed of Chief of the Security Bureau has ever successfully completed their term. Their position teaches them things they should not know. These ideas foster feeling they should not feel. Then they all stray down this path. We knew it was inevitable from the moment he assumed office. This is what becomes of a true fellow citizen. An irony worth noting."

"You mean, no matter what they do, they're going to die?" "It seems a few don't accept their fate."

It is important to realize that even if Raul were "only" the leader of Romdeau, without any knowledge of Romdeau's raison d'etre, he would still have broken in the same fashion. The role he is supposed to fill is supposed to be predetermined and static. He is not supposed to grow the city, or improve the workings of it, or expand his power, or invent anything. Raul has to posses the traits that allow him to deal with the new situations and problems that arise. He has to be able to create new ideas to deal with new problems. He has to be a dynamic entity, not a script. But that same trait makes him think and try to improve beyond the status quo, which is entirely against the philosophy of Romdeau. A static role that must be filled by a dynamic being. The very traits he needs to perform his job, ensure that he cannot perform his job well perpetually. Eventually he will question and try to reach beyond his role. It is the nature of leaders, thinkers, creators to want to add or improve or expand. He cannot be one without the other. The same is true for the other heads of bureaus, (Re-L's investigation and frustration, Daedalus's pet projects and runaway genius, The Regent's attempt to rule Romdeau as statically as possible eventually is corrupted by his single desire to meet his Creator again) and it becomes obvious that they too were doomed to fail. And so this role of "leader" can never be filled perfectly.

You know what is the same problem? Free will. Necessary to survive, but destroys any role prescribed.

The theme of this episode is something like the transition between the past and the future.

The creatures are most likely humans. They may be pseudohumans that lost or destroyed their proxy, and then developed their current situation to continue life, however a few things repel me from that idea. One is that proxies were mostly decent guardians for most of their existence, and that they are really really hard to kill. Secondly they must have killed their god long enough ago to have forgotten language. Thirdly, there is no remnants of a dome or a WombSys or autoreivs that I can tell. Finally, they reproduce in a mammalian fashion. It seems to me, that they are instead humans that were left behind after the Boomerang project. That they holed themselves up in a sort of bunker and kept a society hoping for rescue. This is what becomes of mankind after eons of evolution, if they themselves had stayed on earth while it recovered. The outside air is poisonous to them rather than virulent.

This then is a vision of the past dying, and the future taking over where they left off.

This is the most prevalent manipulation of Proxy One. Here he continues to play Raul, and presumably has all along. All the visions Raul has been having to provoke him against Vincent were real. Since day one, every time he was mocked by Vincent's image, it was Proxy 1 purposefully driving him to despair. It was Proxy 1 that planted the broadcast so that Raul would see Vincent and Pino and their destination of Mosk. He handed the plan to Raul and then drove him to execute it. How enraged Raul becomes is no fault of his personality, but the eloquent control of his psyche through Proxy 1's powers.

Further instances of foreshadowing: "We won't last long like this, but it isn't the end of the world, at least not yet."
Raul's first ideas of surviving the loss of the Proxy and the WombSys by becoming independent of their powers.
"You're too emotional." "And you're too detached."
Raul and Daedalus try opposite methods of dealing with the changes in their lives. Raul tries to take everything into his own hands and fight, and Daedalus decides to watch the fall of civilization from the side-lines having given up well before the end had begun. Raul's anger and destructive tendencies are made clear, and the first signs of Daedalus's madness set in when he speaks to Re-L's image on his computer as if she were there.

Here is the end of Raul and Deadalus' previous lives, and the opening of their lives in the approaching apocalypse.

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My only thoughts on Re-L and Vincent's adventure are about how resigned the creatures are. They are so weak, both in body and in spirit. I can only guess at what a civilization would be like if it knew it were doomed to an unstoppable decay over hundreds of years. How, from birth to death, the atmosphere would be one of utter despair, resignation, gloom, and morbidity. What would it be like, to live your entire life that way? Save for one or two youths that briefly challenge their fate before giving up because there are no resources, nothing to do, and no hope. (Speculation: They may even be dying from slowly suffocating themselves by using up the oxygen. Dying from their very act of living.) What would it be like, to bear children in a society like that, knowing that they too will merely be part of the inevitable slow death?

Walking corpse from a clockwork womb.... what imagery.

All Episodes: Ergo Proxy Companion Viewing Guide
Previous: Episode 16:Dead Calm/Busy Doing Nothing
Next: Episode 18:Sign of the End/Life After God

Ergo Proxy - 16: Dead Calm/Busy Doing Nothing

All Episodes: Ergo Proxy Companion Viewing Guide
Previous: Episode 15:Nightmare Quiz Show/Who Wants to Be in Jeopardy!
Next: Episode 17:Never-Ending Battle/Terra Incognita

Dead Calm

This episode, on the contrary, is both very different, but very enjoyable. It is sweet and funny, while still discussing some important and interesting subjects. What makes an autoreiv an autoreiv and a human human. You might say prejudice or something as well, but really I think Re-L is just being mean because she is petulant, not because she is actually racist or ... specieist or something.

From the beginning, Re-L shows her inability to sympathize or relax.
Sometimes she is competent and well adapted to her tasks: She evaluates their situation, supplies, and maintains her own health. Other times she can barely function correctly. She gets angry at her own and other's mistakes and what she sees as transgressions. She obsesses over puzzles she cannot solve. She does not know how to relax, play, or let things be. She doesn't know how to adjust her attitude or her actions to this new situation where she is a member of a team trapped in an uncivilized location.

At first it seemed to me that her attitude was merely a slight detriment to herself, and a funny dilemma. However, I've come to think that it is really a true fault and a difficult obstacle to overcome within herself.

Her patience is running thin, as she noted accurately at the beginning. The littlest things bother her and send her into frustration. She becomes more and more paranoid. Fundamentally it all comes from the unfamiliarity she has with the situation she is in. Her routines aren't able to address the situation, she can't control the problems that are arising, and she doesn't really understand how to work with her companions. Nor can she imagine acting and thinking any differently than she is.

She can't sleep. She takes an hour to get ready, despite having nothing to get ready for and no one to look good for. She doesn't comprehend the idea of running out of food or water very well, nor that other people have to be accommodated. (In some ways, she has to grow up just as much as Pino. It is immaturity not to be able to empathize with others. How can we then accuse robots of being inhuman for having to learn such things, when we have to learn them as well?) Re-L leaves everything open behind her when searching for her makeup, but is incensed when Vincent leaves the toilet seat up.

It finally dawns on her when she sees Vincent eating without water, and she is somewhat shocked by it. She doesn't take it to be self-sacrifice, at least not completely. She really can't figure it out.

She distances herself from Vincent and Pino, trying to treat them as either something she can deal with through protocol, or else to blame them for their "acting wrongly." Remember, Re-L grew up in Romdeau. She never approved of her life there, but she experienced it her whole life. She does not have any idea how to cope in a world with all of the rules and procedures and regulations and social hierarchy stripped away. If people don't act within their jobs, how is she supposed to treat them? How is she supposed to even think of them? It might even be frightening or at least enviable that Vincent and Pino seem to be able to deal with the situation so effortlessly.

She confronts Vincent - more or less stating her problem directly, though beneath a different pretense:
"So what are your thoughts on our current situation. Any idea how we are getting out of this?"
"I'm not sure what you're expecting me to say. Am I supposed to know how to make the wind start blowing?"
"Aaaannnd?"
"And nothing. That's it."
"Just nothing?"
"Yeah, that's right. It's just nothing."
"And what's nothing supposed to mean? Is it nothing because you've really thought about it? Or is it nothing because you haven't even tried?"

She asks Vincent to tell her the plan despite her own leadership nature because that's how she has been taught life is. She isn't a designated leader, therefore someone else is designated in charge. She helps with Intelligence, that is all she has known and all she has been told she should ever know. What's more, she can't comprehend there being nothing for anyone to do. Even when the Bureau couldn't solve problems, Romdeau would create circles for its citizens to run in, in order to maintain order and pretend nothing was wrong and every problem could be solved. Re-L only knows how to act, to move, to perform duties. (Her comment, "It sickens me." is a direct link to Daedalus and Romdeau.) She does not know how to live life, accept hardship, or how to work within a team. All she can conceive is that Vincent is responsible, and must need to think or think harder. Not that there really is nothing to be done and the best course is to accept that.... let alone the additional step of how to be content with that.

Re-L's Notes:

Results of test: specimen reacted to Amrita cells (from experiment ...?)
// specimen confirmed as a proxy. What’s proxy?
Amrita means of “sweet water”
in ancient Hindu myth
and grants eternal youth and immortality
divide infinitely (no Hayflick limit) --> plus live indefinitely

The membrane surrounding Amrita cells is intensely activated when it nears ATTU

what that means: proxy

-This may be the result of a
magnetic field radiated by the proxy or
an antibiotic to an unknown body
|
v
in either case, this reaction allows us to identify a “proxy”

MCQ (nuts!)-> proxy one? whose him? // ergo proxy = Vincent Law
there’s about 300 proxy in the world

PP - the proxy project
BP - the boomerang project
two project
about..... how long have been

*judgement day -> Boomerang star
proxy
methane hydrate -> “fiery ice”
-> methane [carbon atom, for hydrogen atoms]
-> [three carbon atoms, eight hydrogen atoms]



Note: There is more, but I have not translated it.

I'm going to just post the image here, rather than trying to read and transcribe them. I should look up what they are from, if they are from anything.

There is also a picture in Pino's book that might just be a slide from the show, or it might be referencing something else, I don't know. It looks like it could be classical, but I'm out of luck because I don't recognize the composition:

She then writes in her journal after Vincent bumps his head and says good morning good naturedly, that he is "hard to take seriously." Later she notes: "vincent: left handed" and finally, "facial hair".


Re-L throws a ball with Pino again, and Pino continues to favor her left hand extremely much. She twists in order to catch the ball with her left, even though it is thrown far to her right. Later she is given a can opener and then a knife. Both are placed on her right, and both she swaps to her left hand to operate. She is earlier seen drawing with her left hand too. Since Vincent is left handed, it would seem it is a learned trait or a sign of adoration. More importantly, Pino is seen drawing for a little. She isn't drawing a picture specifically, but spiraling the pen around and around. Still, she is clearly demonstrating a development past her mimic drawings from Timothy. That isn't to say she is not still an autoreiv - she is she is seen plugged in to the ship's power to recharge, and turned off while she "sleeps."

Re-'L's makeup being off shows her both giving up and letting go.

Also, once the snow falls, they are shown having water again to cook food and take showers and maintain life. (They are still in dire straits - they only have beans for food still, but life eases, but now they do have water. Somehow I overlooked this over and over until this time.)

The episode plays with expectations - Re-L sees humans as those who act rationally, responsibly, and with concern for their role in society. Seeing Vincent and Pino playing seems "un-human-like" to her. She can only see the waiting as a waste, and the snow as a hardship. She cannot see that worrying and being miserable is, in fact, the wasteful way to think. Pino and Vincent can be grateful and excited. They can be content and have fun. They know more than one mode of life and more than one joy. They are at peace with life, not in a bitter struggle with it. They know how to make fun of themselves and to let go of worrying. And Re-L begins to see life through their self ridicule and simple mindset. What's more, she dreams of Iggy during the night she makes the transition. He could not resolve the differences or make the adjustment between freedom and the dome, but Re-L does.


[VIEW SPOILERS]

Busy Doing Nothing

No spoilers, this episode is not even about Re-L and Vincent and Pino so much as it is about life and living it.

It is good to see Re-L working at puzzling out the mystery of the proxies. It lends some credibility to her foresight as well as her Intelligence expertise.

This episode too, shows how Vincent is a great personality if he is on his own. He truly is likable and good at heart. It is because of the Proxy conflict that he spirals into weakness, indecision, and confusion. He isn't a perfect human, he is too childlike and lenient, but he is also wise and at peace in his own way.

I am glad that Vincent and Re-L's romantic relationship never develops more than this. I find their partnership more realistic and meaningful, though eventually when they grow up more, it's possible they could be right for one another despite their seeming incompatibilities. I also find it very very funny that the Ergo Proxy team portray a kiss to satisfy the rabid shippers before the couple even know each other properly. That way, such fans cannot petition for a romantic scene, and also are completely undermined when they are unsatisfied that it happened too early(!) instead of too slowly! That they kissed at all is acceptable since it was within story bounds and also not endlessly referred to as Emotionally Important Character Development (tm). And when they never kiss again, I am pleased, and the shippers get their due for wanting such a meaningless thing without regards for the sense or depth of the relationship! Or maybe I'm just contrary. Probably the latter.

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I think there is a little commentary on what society has done to girl's expectations. They care about their appearance so much that they upkeep it well past it's actual purpose. It has been ingrained in their subconscious so much that it is part of their identity. Whether this is a natural state for a girl, or something that girls do because they are self-conscious and have low esteem, or whether it is the outward pressure that has warped their very subconscious is not implied nor am I sure what I believe either. In any case, it isn't considered unusual or strange that Re-L is so concerned about how she looks while she is trapped in the wastelands and perhaps near death.

Pino has grown a lot in this time. She experiences emotions like joy, contentment, mischievousness, love, respect, and jealousy. She mimics her friends, and helps them by bringing joy and humor. She is at once, just a thoughtless kid, and the only thing between Vincent and Re-L keeping them sane. If you don't think she is a valuable member of their team, imagine the Centzon without her on board. She keeps both Re-L and Vincent stable by giving them perspective and purpose. Not just now, but in the past and future. Not only that, she helps them realize the difference between those with souls and those without.

I don't know what to make of Vincent in this chapter. He is either a naive buffoon or wise beyond himself. I don't know if he sees past Re-L's bluffing to things she doesn't realize about herself - that she is putting on an exterior because she is helpless - or if he just is blind with love for her. So much so that even her glare make him happy she is paying him mind.

I do love how, when Vincent falls and Re-L calls him an idiot, she falls immediately afterwards. And then when she falls, and Vincent tries to reach out to her... suddenly it is so clear:

He cares for her, and she does not know how to accept help.

She does not know how to laugh or smile, and Vincent is so generous to keep reaching out to her.

Yet, he is helpless. He cannot help her, and he sees through her to just how alone and struggling she is. But he can't do anything. Re-L. Re-L is foolish and weak despite herself, and even though she is no clutz or buffoon like Vincent... she is weak to be unable to ask for help or help herself.

She is so strong, to stand so alone. To try to fight against everything and to not know how to be happy.

It is not because she is likable or strong. It is because she is weak, that is the source of her beauty and her strength.

I can see why Vincent is in love with her. It is no shallow attraction. And I can share in his love for her when I look at her through his eyes, when normally I would find her judgmental and blind. And in turn, I can love Vincent through his purity, when normally I would find him weak and incomplete.

It strikes me as close to what love is at its heart. Something that compliments so effectively.... something that makes them so much more than they are alone. Even if it is never love in the romantic sense, it is still a real kind of love.

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Previous: Episode 15:Nightmare Quiz Show/Who Wants to Be in Jeopardy!
Next: Episode 17:Never-Ending Battle/Terra Incognita

Magic Exists

Somehow it appears that I failed to give this thought it's due record, but I came up with this amusing realization far back when I had begun this blog. Specifically I note it on November 8th 2011 when I state: "Admittedly, its hard to accept that there is the possibility of magic when these disciplines strive to dispel all incomprehension, but its not so difficult. Many many things are effected or driven by chance, and really, that's all we are acknowledging."

To put it the argument in another, more paradoxical, (and clearer!) way:
What is magic?

Magic is something entirely outside the laws of nature.
Magic is something we cannot explain, or is patently inexplicable.
Magic is unpredictable and although it has some rules that may explain it (such as being "inexplicable by nature" or "still not negating every kind of logic") it nonetheless, breaks many normal physical laws.
(Or, "Any sufficiently advanced [complex] technology [event] is indistinguishable from [essentially the same as] magic," if you are a fan of the saying)

Now, that isn't to say that the traditional view of magic exists. We do not have ghosts or fairies or dragons or wizards walking about. That isn't to say that magic itself isn't present in our world. You see, one of the things we have attached to the definition of magic is that it is outside our experience. And that, by definition, means that magic cannot exist.

However, if we remove that assumption and allow the possibility of magic to exist - indeed to exist in our everyday lives - it becomes (outrageously) obvious that it does.

We renamed it.

Randomness.

(whether true randomness actually exists, I will set aside for the moment, but for this playful proposition I'll continue, you may substitute "un-knowable complexity" if you prefer)

Randomness is something that we cannot explain, not matter how hard we try. That is it's very nature, to operate outside every prediction.

Sure, we can describe or quantify how "random" something is, but then we are basically just measuring the amount of "magic" that is going on there. Randomness operates in our every day lives, and yet we hardly bat an eye, simply because we are so familiar with it. It isn't "magic" even though it fits every side of the definition, simply because it is just too damn mundane to be called such a lofty word as "magic."

And yet.... that doesn't mean that we don't live every day witnessing and accepting magic.... because it is too normal to remark upon.



I'm sorry if you are disappointed to find out that magic exists and yet is so utterly unremarkable. (I was too)

But then again, if magic is to be normal, it would have to be utterly boring!

Senseless

What is the point of it all?


Why am I wasting all of this time, effort, money, and trust when I don't even care that much what happens in my life. Why am I always taking from other people when it doesn't do any good anyway. When I don't even know what I actually want. When I am just sad and happy irrespective of the things I try to do to make my life worthwhile.

At least I can tell that it isn't my fault. That much has changed. It was, for a long time. It was so clear how I wasn't... was giving up and making life worse for myself because I wasn't doing even the basic obvious things that would make my life better, happier, more stable....

But now, I can list things upon things upon things that I have wanted to do, and am doing.

I can list all the things I am involved in, that fill up my time and my day and can stand up in comparison to other students' schedules. I am pursuing many of my own interests actively, and I am not as shamed by my interest and fun in anime and computer games. I am speaking up and making friends and planning events. I am taking many classes I am interested in, and I know much of the things I am being taught before I am taught it. I am reading books and creating things for other people and am generally liked. I am taking care of myself somewhat, and getting to bed at earlier times and sleeping later than in the past.

But here we are. Again.

I don't want to be here. I don't want to be doing this. I don't want to work and even the material itself seems inconsequential. I don't want to do the things that make me happy. I just want to lie down and do nothing.

And really, that is the thing. It's all hopeless. Doing nothing wouldn't really make a difference.



I have to learn to stand on my own, I have to learn to stand on my own, I have to learn how to manage it, I don't know what to fight against, I have to learn to stand on my own, I ... I can't, I must, I can't, I must, how, I must, I must. I'm breaking the things that I care about, and I can't piece anything together - let it go. First, I must, I must, I must, I can't do anything else, I have to learn to stand on my own, I have to learn to stand on my own, I have to learn to stand on my own, help me, go away, I'm alone, it's better this way, I shouldn't say, and I want to learn to, to stand on my own. I have to learn to. And here I am, juggling daggers because I don't know how, I can't. But still it's there, standing over me, I have to learn to stand on my own, it's all hopeless, , , , , , I have to learn to stand on my own, I have to learn to stand on my own, I have to learn to stand on my own, I ------

Neon Genesis Evangelion

Wow....

(That's not a good wow)

So, I had been coming across this anime's name for ages and had read over and over again that it would be the kind of anime that I would like. I tried watching it perhaps a year or two ago, and gave up, thinking that it was too like a typical mecha-action anime for my interest.

I watched the entire series (admitted skimming some of the latter episodes, seeking the more interesting bits) and it is terrible.

Okay, let me say that again. Neon Genesis Evangelion is terrible.

It is not terrible because it is too slow. It is not terrible because the animation and production value are low. It is not terrible because the characters are uninteresting or reprehensible (they are not). It is not terrible because it is too much philosophy for an anime.

It is terrible because all of that "thought provoking and symbolic and deep" themes, are neither thought provoking, symbolic or deep.

I admit that this anime may be of great historical merit. It may be a case of something like Myst. It may not stand against time or be that admirable without context. (and is not "fun" in the typical respects) But maybe it became of great renown for other reasons; Reasons like genre-defining originality/divergence or else the first example of a "mature" kind of anime/videogame and a flagship example of what the genre is capable of.

Whatever the case, Neon Genesis Evangelion is not nearly as good as its reputation would let on.

To get into the dirty details:

The symbolism and relation to christian symbols I did not find to be either deep or nuanced. Words like "adam" "dogma" "angel" "eve" "sin" "human" "soul" "psyche" are tossed around without real examination or implication.

The characters were messed up and multifaceted which I respect, however I did not find them to undergo meaningful struggles and realizations, nor did I consider them that very interesting in their uniqueness or depth of conflict. I did not find them tiresome either. I did not find Asuka annoying or Shinji overly weak.

The ending covered some concepts which I realized myself a few years ago. I found the presentation to be bad in a number of ways. I found the concepts themselves to be, to a degree, obvious. Not that they could not be profound, but that they were discussed in such a way as to be simple and not to be treated in a way which would allow them to be greater themes.

The battles were fine, but the pacing was both slow and awkward. The themes did not run through or interact in any way that would enhance their natures.

The comments made by characters was also stunningly dull. "I worry about him" repeatedly says Misato. And yet she never tries to make suggestions to him or interact with his problems. "I must not run!" says Shinji, and yet he never really builds strength, has set backs, or has a gradual realization. He sways, seemingly without reason, between focusing on Eva, his weakness, his father, and his past. He goes berserk without comment or explanation.

It is neat that the characters are realistic in this way, that they cannot really manage themselves or their problems clearly. But it there is never any depth or meaning to be found, after that is understood.

I understand that Misato's desire for alcohol and her synonymous desire and rejection of love are from her fears of being an adult. I understand Shinji's fear and defeatism and inability to stand up for himself come from his father's rejection and abandonment. I understand Rei's withdrawal and emotionless nature are part of her loneliness. I understand Asuka's bravado and pride are there to cover up her fear. I understand their small reaching out to one another and their accomplishments and their failures. I just do not see that there is anything else that happens or any commentary or any suggestion about what it means. I do not even see room for someone to speculate or create their own interpretations and meanings. It all ends up just being a series of events in my mind, rather than something worth thinking about.





I cannot say for sure how I can find such themes and allusions to be present, and yet not thought provoking. Maybe it is the way they are handled, but I cannot say what about the handling makes it so.

Oh oh, I forgot to mention, I think the monster design of the angels is superb! I'm a major fan.

Down to Earth

(                     Do I Understand?                     )



Reverence? I am never without it.

Even when I am witnessing things that others believe to be baneful by nature, I see wonder and beauty. Even for the simplest and most mundane, I am in awe.

What others consider normal or their right, I consider the greatest of blessings, the most stirring of insights, the most fulfilling experiences, the strangest of perspectives.
Always I see that things are beyond their appearance, hints of the divine in all, or else a knowledge of the infinite and the limits of our own awakening.
Always things are seen as reflections connections and aspects of other things. Of sides and microcosms of the entirety. In single components I perceive a window that opens to the whole. Of words that are both mere pieces of greater works, but also dazzling truths within their own right.
I am obsessed with purity and the central essence of things. I am surrounded everywhere with truth and possibility so that I am paralyzed with the meaning of it all.
I see it in the world and I see the world in myself.
Sometimes I am enlivened by the pure understanding, sometimes I am thrown into paralysis by the enormity of it all.
I live for merely understanding fully what I see before me. I live for the comprehension of what is.
I drive and am pulled by it, and my view and the world is illuminated by that shining reality.
I tear down falsity and live freely because of doctrines of "enough."
I realize how small the necessities and how vast the potential in every direction.
I accept the imperfections and rejoice in how they can only enhance existence.
I learn secrets of life and being. I am torn by knowledge that everything is unique and irreplaceable. I am a small flicker in a brilliant star. I imagine how far beyond even the greatest understanding the elegance of the universe is, and of the unapproachable wild extremes at the furthest reaches of every spectrum.
And for every unknown beyond us, there is obvious beauty is everything. Beauty which we have forgotten to perceive.
I am always grateful to glimpse what is, to appreciate what I have lived, to experience contentment in myself and the world, and to feel things fully. I want to know truth and exile illusion.

I am tranquil and distant, because opposite to opposite, I am enraptured in living.

I look at myself, doing this, and think it must be the final answer. I think this life is too beautiful, or too grand, or too perfect for there to be anything more.
I am reminded of what beauty beyond belief I am constantly surprised by. Not merely imagined, but actually taken part in.
I cannot believe that still there is so much more, when I have experienced so much already.

Is it only because I am content, that I believe I see real divinity? Or is this complacency an ignorant comfort?
Neither and both. It serves me well and gives things unattainable with other perceptions. It also is not as perfect as I had first imagined.
I was confused and now am mostly glad to know that, here too, is more for me to know. I do not like the simplistic and exaggerated self-congratulations it implies, but there is a tumultuous energy lingering at the center of this.


I refer to Jem and Kimi Ni Todoke.


So;
it has been the satisfaction of my existence to always cherish the moment,
but so too has it been my fierce thirst to always seek more.

Walking on the Edge of Nothing

(                     Understand as I do.                     )



Satisfaction? I do not know it, except as a mere idea of perfection.

Even when I am completing a great revelation and I believe I have come to finish a great movement within my life, it comes at a sort of exhausted relenting that I have done the best I can. That I must release myself to fall back to reality, and often, to sleep. Or else I risk stalling in flight, or plowing into mire, or simply distorting what I managed to grasp with the unmanagable infinites still beyond me.

Not the greatest book, nor the most stirring of insights, nor the quiet calmness of falling to sleep lets me be complete.
Always it is either a tantalizing glimpse of more, a hint of wider applicability or what is to come, or else a sad knowledge of the temporary.
Always things are seen as reflections connections and aspects of other things. Of sides and incomplete images of further on. Of mere words that are both absolute and imperative for the book, but also nearly meaningless compared to what they ultimately mean with knowledge of the complete library.
I am obsessed with edges and definitions. I push everywhere so as to know what is true or possible at every turn.
I do it to the world and I do it to myself.
Sometimes I am enlivened by the pure newness, sometimes I am thrown into chaos by unknowns.
I live for the different and strange. I live for the comprehension of the incomprehensible.
I drive and am pulled by it, and I subject my view and the world to that rule.
I tear myself down and live freely because of doctrines of "enough."
I learn physical limits of sleep and nourishment. I am freed by knowledge that everything is replaceable or nonessential. I am enough in myself. I imagine great accomplishments of devotion, and of immaculate balances from knowing all the "enoughs."
And for every enough, I discover potential .
I desire always to do more, to try new things, to question myself and the world, and to feel things I have never felt. I want to know truth and exile falsity.

I whip myself into a frenzy and I fall into despair, because opposite to opposite, I cannot find purity without finding impurity.

I look at myself, doing this, and think it cannot be sustainable. I think this search is too impossible, or too perfect, or too far from reality.
I am reminded of what beauty beyond belief I have enjoyed. Not merely imagined, but actually taken part in.
I cannot think these things are lies, when I have experienced them and come to them from such laws as I live by.

Is it only because I demand and discern so much, that I succumb so fully to such real divinity? Or is this maddened pursuit a clumsy effort to be refined?
Neither and both. It serves me well and gives things unattainable with other perceptions. It also is not as perfect as I had first imagined.
I was confused and now am mostly glad to know that, here too, is more for me to know. I do not like the simplistic and exaggerated self-congratulations it implies, but there is a Buddha smile lingering on some edge of this.


I refer to Ayria and to Omelas.


So;
it has been the bane of my existence to always need to do better,
but so too has it been my eternal spirit to always grow.

Now and Before and in the Future

I want to think.

I want to always be aware of the world and my world and what could be. I do not want to do things because I feel there is no other way, or because I feel afraid to do something different, or because I have forgotten that the world is more than it is.

If within this year I could realize it, I would never forget to think. If I cannot do that, then I would like to gradually learn.

[question, explain]

(For me, "to think" in this way, is a slightly grand, almost holy thing. It seems too perfect, too simple and pure---It seems impossible. It needn't feel that way. Not because it is so utopian in my eyes. I have done it and cherished it before. I have even gone days-on-end living like so, when I was most euphoric. And now finally, after years of writing and working through and self examination, there is virtually nothing left in my way to doing so. I do not know when the tormenting downward spiral transitioned into lazy circles. I do not know if it is just my current mindset warping what was, is, and will be. It may be naive, (I have no personal evidence it is naive, just dogmatic belief) but for now I think it possible and possible even for me. Even within the year.)

I am too afraid of hope to let myself embrace the possibility, but.... I believe it within my grasp. And that I will naturally push closer and closer. And someday, perhaps sooner than later, I will be this person which is only a paragon and a thirst to me now.

The idea of that is amazing to me. That it is realistic; That I can.
[is it real]

(That I believe so, what once I didn't even imagine and later would never have supposed. And despite all of my careful checking and questioning and pessimism, I still have come to truly believe it so near)

And so, I say: I will.

Picky Eater

The following is a list of things I first liked in.....

Middle School:
Coconut
Green Beans
Pomelo
Red pepper
Teriyaki flavor


High School:
Ramen
Edamame (soy beans)
Sushi
Cooked Mushrooms
Olives
Chili
Deviled Eggs
Mahimahi
Miso Soup
Mochi
Tea
Marmelade


College:
Poptarts
Onion Rings
Oatmeal
Tuna
Sardines
Cream Cheese
Tofu
Grapefruit
Canned Peaches
Pears
Rice Cakes
Rice Milk
Soy Milk
Eggs cooked "over easy"

Things I still don't like:
Mustard
Mayonnaise
BBQ sauce
Most sauces...
Pineapple
Mango
Kiwi
Salad Dressing (yes. All)
Pasta Salad
Cream of ***** Soups
Papaya
Pickles
Doritos
Other weird flavored chips
Vinegar
Sweet Potato (fries)
Grits
Lentil (soup)
Stuffing
Scalloped Potatoes
Avocado
Couscous
Honeydew Melon

Outsider

I do not need people. I have never needed anybody and I have rarely wanted to be around others. This is patently different from not caring. I care deeply about others, almost against my will. I want to help people, teach them, comfort them, help them be happy and accomplish everything they want. But I do not hang around people for myself. I am indifferent. I like to be around people because I like to make them happier and I like to be around people to experience new and different ideas and ways of living. But I do not like to be around people for its own sake. Often I will do it purely for reasons of making people more comfortable around me so that they will not worry about me. I do care, somewhat, what people think of me, but only just. I do not care if they think me strange or alien as long as it does not bother them. This is probably difficult to understand so I will dwell on the point a bit.

If people think I am strange, I do not care. Not unless they are a bit afraid of me, or a bit worried for me. Then I care because I do not want to cause them any upset if I can help it. Thus, I will sometimes spend time with people in order that they understand that I am happy and healthy and not angry or volatile or dangerous. (Far from it!) This puts me in the peculiar position of caring so much for other people that these little details matter to me, but otherwise, I really do not care what people's opinions are of me, or indeed if I go weeks without company.

What I do care about are ideas. I love new perspectives and ideas and thoughts. I like to eavesdrop or discover what people think about as many topics as possible. I tire easily of repetitive topics such as small-talk, but I don't care how benign or extreme or bizarre another person's opinion is, as long as it is new to me, I would love to listen and maybe discuss. Politics, Religion, Art, Math, Science, Nature, Pet-Peeves, Sexuality, Drugs, whatever. I don't care if I disagree, it is hard to find things I will outright disagree about, and in fact it is most likely better if I do disagree. I will talk to all kinds of people about all kinds of things and be excited and interested and bend my mind to understand as much as possible. I will feel a more whole person for the opportunity and other people seem to enjoy talking to me about things because I listen and say what I think, but never belittle their position. Not because I am being polite (I am that too) but because I actually believe and am interested and value their thoughts for what they are. Even though they may not be mine.

So, in this way, I love all people much more than the average person. But in this way, I also do not love people. I love their unique ideas, but I cannot care for their whole or their choice in lifestyle unless it is a way of expressing their ideas.

Another thing I have discovered: While over the last several months I have become much more willing to tell people things that are important to me, I think I do not like the change. It is not because people are not accepting or because I feel the deeper fear-of-being-subverted manifesting. It is simply that I am most often disappointed by people more or less ignoring or not understanding the least bit how meaningful things are. They smile and agree and are happy to talk. But they are happy to talk, not happy of the ideas being communicated so much. Or at least that is what it seems like to me. It makes me feel more alone when I try to invite them to play my games, than when I play theirs.

Oh, I know sound as if I am arrogantly making myself out to be the one and only intellectual, but it is mostly because I do not have words for these types of feelings and concepts. I currently have an overabundance of vocabulary for "ideas, thoughts, meaning, newness, experience, philosophy, understanding" even though those merely cover the path I take to the "life-ness" of which I am trying to speak, and not the "grokking" itself so much. I could switch over to more art, religious, spiritual, and feeling words, but that would feel dishonest. It carries those meanings, and those words capture a very important part of it (maybe I ought to use them more than I do) but I am trying to explain and those words suggest that it is inexplicable. At least with these more parred down and dry and scientific words, I am able to approach how I come about the love-of-living that emerges, rather than just describing the joy of it, wholly detached from how I reach it.





Edit: Why do I always end up talking about myself? I am sorry to do this so overwhelmingly much of the time. I don't like it because it feels selfish (even though it (probably?!) isn't) and downright limiting. I do think that it is a sort of movement in life I am going through, so I'm not tempted to avoid it. I will simply let it pass in its own time or something, and try not to let it bother me overmuch. But it is too bad that I can only seem to speak of this topic so thoroughly when there are so many others I care about. I don't know why I don't think/write of them so much.

Ergo Proxy - 15: Nightmare Quiz Show/Who Wants to Be in Jeopardy!

All Episodes: Ergo Proxy Companion Viewing Guide
Previous: Episode 14:Someone Like You/Ophelia
Next: Episode 16:Dead Calm/Busy Doing Nothing

Nightmare Quiz Show

I really don't care what goes on in this episode past the cute references and the actual information dump. That's all I'll go over. Thanks.

It was Pascal who referred to man as a thinking reed.
The triangle's relationship between its legs and hypotenuse was discovered by Pythagoras. (Actually many other discovered it before him, but his writings are the ones that have been passed down through our history)
Sound is higher pitched as it approaches and lower pitched as it leaves. This is called the Doppler Effect. (The same as light waves being spread out for stars as the universe expands)
4 degrees Celsius is water's highest density.
Nobel invented dynamite.
Astronomical Unites or AU's are the distance between the earth and the sun.
The opening song is called Kiri by Monoral.


The "mistake" could be many things. It could be that the award is 450,000 points after two clues were revealed. (should be 500,000; 600,000 for the first clues, 550,000 for the second, 500,000 for the third) It could be calling the show QQQ instead of QQQQ.... or something else. I never found anything that seemed appropriate, those are other people's guesses.

"You ever seen a blue sky?" Is a strange thing to say. Then again, the domes have false ceilings and outside has always been shown as grey-brown overcast.

"Ergo Proxy" is "close," but the answer is "Proxy One." Who looks exactly like Ergo Proxy. This seems like nonsense, but why is such a nonsequittor mentioned at all? It makes it seem important, but right now it means nothing.
The best guesses that can be made at this point are things like: all the Proxy's look alike until they change their appearances, Proxy One and Ergo Proxy are brothers, Proxy One and Ergo Proxy are clones, Proxy One created all the other proxies, MCQ just used Ergo Proxy's picture to represent this other "Proxy One," MCQ is just messing with Vincent, because, (let's be honest) it's fun to mess with Vincent.

The WombSys image is described as: "Oh yes, it's alive. Although not quite. I don't want to give it all away, but it's not exactly alive. It looks like it's alive but it's a little different."
"moves and grows so it must be alive," this is patently not the definition of alive. Chemical reactions and machines can grow and move on their own. Reproduction and energy consumption are part of the definition of alive. Also possession of DNA and use of water, although none of these are definitive and none really capture what we mean when we think of "alive." Then again, can you think of a better definition?

"Yes, not that the fact is anyone's fault necessarily. I mean that nobody could have possibly foreseen what eventually happened. It took a lot longer for the planet's environment to restore itself to the proper conditions than the creators had expected. That's probably why their calculations got so messed up. Here's a hint. To survive what happened they needed to build themselves a huge dome.
" People, Mankind, Humans, Men and Women. "
No.
Then what are the dome citizens? Are they all autoreives? I would guess not exactly, they are biological, but biological constructs created in WombSys machines. Then they are not exactly alive nor humans. Still. If this rings as a remarkably limited view of alive or human, then you are not alone.

"The plan went into effect in a much harsher "Awakening Environment" than had been originally anticipated. What proved to be the greatest hurdle for the creators under these harsh conditions was the overabundance of data that had been preserved, particularly the "Origin of Species." Within the major cities the need to adapt to an ever changing and fiercely harsh environment was unnecessary. Therefore, despite the fact that they.... the original ... This law... despite their remarkable.... failing, the project was deemed defective. And the program was slated for elimination. But to admit failure, the creators had to acknowledge that the true failure was theirs. "

If you are confused, that's good. These "creators" seem to be the Proxy's, but then, who wrote "the Origin of Species"? Unless the Proxy's did before embarking on their task. And what is this "plan" and "Awakening?"

"Billions of years after the universe was created in the big bang a strangle little planet was born on the edge of an ordinary galaxy. The name of the planet would one day be "Earth." Pools of water began to form, becoming a miraculous ocean with seaweed and fish. Many strange things happened over the next few hundred million years. Later on dry land dinosaurs appeared. Thus began the law of the law of the jungle: eat, be eaten, or run away. Soon we came to the age of mammals. Here, our ancestors were born. In order to catch his prey, one of the ancestors by chance raises the bone he is holding. Yes, this is the moment when the first tool came into existence. (The image of the bone is a reference to 2001: A Space Odyssey) Way to go humans!"

Confused again? Good. So these are humans. And they evolved naturally and are earthlings. So then, This universe takes place here and presumably our history is this history. But then how did the Proxies and current WombSys humans come around to existence and why is this an interference in "the plan" and furthermore what is "the plan"?

"The last tool they made. It's a big one. It was rushed. Not everyone could use it so it was a bit useless. It fostered widespread resentment. Someone used it to try to get away from earth. " "Rocket."

"The apocalypse is at hand. This is "mankind's last best hope" (the images and words here are a reference to my favorite TV show, Babylon5) of escape from a world that's heading for destruction. Humanity's very own trump card. Science had finally made interplanetary emigration possible. This would be the last tool manufactured here on earth. Completed through the fusion of ultimate wisdom, it was a spaceship built in geosynchronous orbit and referred to as the Evacuation Ship. The correct answer was the Boomerang Star. An interplanetary immigration ship built by humans long ago."

Alright. Things are coming together. Humans left earth, but not all of them. Somehow the balance of Proxy's and current autoreivs/humans came about afterwards. Maybe Proxies are the descendants of humans and made dome cities to replace what they lost.

"In the second half of the twenty first century the most promising alternative energy source to fossil fuels and nuclear power was made by compressed methane gas in solid form.
The answer was Methane Hydrate
The accumulated Methane Hydrate exploded in a chain reaction. What percentage of living creatures on planet earth were wiped out.
85%
The plan to restore the human population had a double letter acronym. The letters were what?
PP (Proxy Project)
What would the human race no longer need once their numbers had been restored on the planet?
Proxy
As a result of the double P plan or Proxy Project the number of Proxies that were released across the planet was ....?
300 proxies
What is the "Pulse of the Awakening." Think about your current situation.
Conclusion of the Proxy Project
Carl Gustav Jung was known as the author of Psychology and Alchemy. Jung was also know as the King of what
subconscious
Humanity had a second plan involving the current outbreak of the cogito virus, what was it called?
The Boomerang Project
The Egyption God Ra was the god of what. (Vincent: I don't know what that is)
The sun
Beethoven's 5th Symphony is commonly referred to as the what Symphony
It's Fate
A person who trains the mind is a teacher. What is someone that minds a train?
Conductor"


Answers without questions:
Failure. Schism. Escape/Contract. Substitute. Oblivion. Awakening. Fight. Enjoy. No. Labyrinth.
Always wins - "make sure you remember his face" - Proxy One.
This seemed odd before, but now it is doubly exaggerated.

"That's how it goes. I guess Proxies will fight how proxies will fight.
I think we really wrapped everything up well."


The announcement at the end was that "The enemy we are struggling to defeat seems to have originated from here. We need to put our heads together and take this out." Then the announcer disappears in a flash of blue light, like he has been killed as a Proxy, which makes sense since he is one.

Oooookay. There is not much to interpret here. It really is an information dump, but in case you weren't listening this is what was said.

Humans used Methane Hydrate as a fuel source, it built up and in an enormous explosion decimated the planet to 15% of its life. They then constructed their last tool on earth, an evacuation spaceship. This ship was not able to rescue everyone and caused a lot of havoc. It was called the Boomerang Star and was an interplanetary ship. (This indicates to me that it would reach another planet, but also return to earth)
The Proxy Project and Boomerang Project were started as well, one being the Proxies and their domes, the other being the cogito infection. The purpose of each is not clear. The humans on earth now are not "actual" humans and not quite "alive." And "The Pulse of the Awakening" is the end of the Proxy Project.... "Think about your current situation".....? There are a few problems though, the earth has not recovered as "the creators" (original humans) intended. Also their texts were persevered and probably gave the dome cities instability with their lessons of striving for greatness. Maybe this refers to the Proxies knowing them as well, and rebelling against their designated Project goals.

The final answer is Labyrinth, which may be a reference to the Labyrinth of mirrors that Vincent was in when he discovered himself as Ergo Proxy.
[VIEW SPOILERS]

Who Wants to Be in Jeopardy!

It is cute that they list Vincent as from Romdeau instead of from Mosk in some foreshadowing.

The Wombsys itself is of course a biological machine, but the pseudohumans themselves... they cannot breed, so then it stands to reason that they are not truly alive. The same can be said of autoreivs of course, furthering the question of whether men and machine actually have any meaningful differences between them.

Also they mention Vincent not knowing what a blue sky or the sun is.

The last line, of the mutual enemy that originated here. (I believe he points to Mosk) That needs to be taken out by putting "our heads together" is how Raul learns where Mosk is, and how he sends Rapture to destroy the dome before Ergo and Vincent arrive.

The rest of the answers are other themes relating to Ergo Proxy and Proxy One.
Fate, Failure, Schism, Escape/Contract, Substitute, Oblivion, Awakening, Fight, Enjoy, No, Labyrinth.

It is Proxy One that is sworn to Fate, Failure, has a Schism, and attempts to create a contract to escape his own (it doesn't work so well). He is tied to Oblivion, the Awakening and Fighting amongst the other Proxies. It is Ergo that learns to enjoy something other than destruction, and faces the Labyrinth that Proxy One and the creators have placed him in. So to, is the Labyrinth a reference to the fable of Daedalus and Icarus.

Proxy One is "naked under blue skies" which is an image shown far back in episode one with some birds, so that must be ErgoProxyOne, or else Proxy One.

I believe that it is likely that Proxy One kills MCQ rather than Ergo Proxy. After all MCQ is broadcasting a suggestion to destroy Proxy One's memories at Mosk. It just doesn't seem like Vincent to kill this harmless proxy, although he may not really have a choice. It's possible that MCQ set up something to off himself as well.

[/SPOILERS]

////////////Reactions:
I hate this episode. The information isn't terribly original and is not presented well. It's nice to have a history of this version of earth given, and lots more information about what is going on with Proxies. Vincent makes me laugh a few times. I still hate this episode a lot. That is about it.

All Episodes: Ergo Proxy Companion Viewing Guide
Previous: Episode 14:Someone Like You/Ophelia
Next: Episode 16:Dead Calm/Busy Doing Nothing

Ergo Proxy - 14: Someone Like You/Ophelia

All Episodes: Ergo Proxy Companion Viewing Guide
Previous: Episode 13:Conceptual Blindspot/Wrong Way Home
Next: Episode 15:Nightmare Quiz Show/Who Wants to Be in Jeopardy!

Someone Like You

This episode too is about love. But this time, instead of being about how to love another, it is about how to be loved or how to love yourself.
It's about acceptance and suicide.



......./////........

Re-L speaks of the world as being somehow fundamentally connected to her. That when she dies, it would die with her. Philosophically it's impossible to prove what it's like when you stop existing..... and it is true, at least for me, that self shapes the world just as the world can help shape the self. I believe it is George Berkeley and Hume that speak of how important perception and mind are in comparison to external reality, and indeed whether external reality is even existent or even possible to understood.

For conveniences' sake, I'll write the sequence of events in order.

Re-L sees the lake glittering, and goes to investigate it. While she's there she gets the feeling she is being watched.
Ophelia-Dome-Proxy, as Re-L, goes to the Rabbit and set it adrift so they are trapped in the dome.
Re-L returns, complains, asks for Ginger Ale, and leaves to stand watch without eating.
Vincent eats Pino's food.
Doppelganger visits Vincent and is given Ginger Ale.
Doppelganger visits Re-L, gives Ginger Ale, and is pushed off the roof when it approaches Re-L too eagerly. It repeats lines it has heard earlier like Echo from Narcissus. When it is turned away, it stops being interested in tricking Re-L and turns its attention to Vincent and Pino.
I think it is the real Re-L that gets locked in the storage room, the fake Re-L falls to the ground (hoping to get Vincent's attention and care).
The real Re-L confronts the real Vincent on the roof, then runs off to try and stop the doppelganger Proxy.
Instead she is captured by the Doppelganger as Vincent which takes Pino and Re-L to the lake. It decides to kill off Re-L since she is useless to it (like the rest of the dome's citizens) and hopes to gain Pino's attention. However, Pino realizes it is a fake and it decides to kill off Pino too, but fails because Pino is an autoreiv. (Please note that "kill off" is probably closer to preserve -- the way the other dome citizens were preserved.)
Meanwhile Vincent leaves the roof and goes looking for the others. He finds the ship is gone. Vincent then heads to the lake and confronts the Doppelganger.
Pino has already rescued Re-L from the lake, but Vincent finds doppelganger Re-L.
They have their discussions in the lake while Re-L and Pino watch from the banks.

The Doppelganger has reasons for each of its tricks. At first it is feeling out which person to try to replace and gain the love of another. It realizes replacing Vincent for Re-L is not going to work, (Re-L isn't very loving) then tries to replace Vincent for Pino, but is foiled again, (Pino knows what is going on and is an autoreiv). Next, it succeeds in securing Vincent's love, but, in anger or in sadness or in Awakening, it tries to kill Vincent.

The Doppelganger is never seen in its own body. It is only shown as it takes on the form of Re-L or Vincent... It has no form but those it mimics.

Vincent (as Ergo) sees an aerial view of the city as it used to be, while the Doppelganger speaks of its own past and Vincent re-lives his own in parallel: This seems such a small, inconsequencial sequence of events, but it speaks volumes to me. Once again the doppelganger has no past of its own, only able to express itself through Vincent's memories. Also, it speaks to me about how people are miraculously able to comprehend so much and so intimately, despite differences in lives, opinions, pasts, and perceptions. Vincent and the doppelganger both experienced entirely different lives until this moment, and yet they both underwent some of the same trials and understand the same emotions.... and so the words of the Doppelganger match Vincent's own experiences enough to bring then to light.

The words it uses are somewhat extreme and overstated, but if you take it with a healthy dose of re-interpretation and put it into philosophical contexts it becomes very interesting to me.

"No matter where we go, I'll never be accepted."
Are we ever accepted by anyone else? Or do we all ultimately use each other for our own benefits? Do we do things for pure altruism, or do we just seek the good things that result from helping one another; enjoying company, and seeking support. Do we support each other only because we hope for the support to be returned? Do we communicate so that we might learn and have fun, rather than for the sake of the other? If talking to each other wasn't fun or interesting and didn't mean friendship, would we still assist each other just because it was "the right thing to do"?
"This is my territory. An eternity of solitude"
What if your very nature is one that leaves you lonely and unloved.
"Without communication. Without understanding. Why am I this way?"
We all try to communicate, but we can never communicate perfectly. We all try to understand, but we can never understand completely. Both in the sending and in the receiving, we cannot do so, no matter how we try. The Doppelganger's own words are distorted and reinterpreted to fit Vincent's own experience when he hears them. Everyone can only understand another through their own lens, never truly understanding from the perspective of the one they seek to understand.
"Why can't I be something worthy of love and acceptance?"
If you don't believe yourself to be lovable and if you do not respect yourself, then very often others will not either. What can you do? How can you change yourself? How can you become someone different when you are who you are? What if who you are, is someone that cannot change themselves?
"I found if I pretended to be someone else, I could be loved."
And what if you do change yourself? We play these social games where we bend and hide parts of ourselves when we interact. It makes us "more loved" to do so, but really it is a social dance of ranking more than love at that point.
"But after awhile I realized, the person they loved wasn't me."
Even though we get so very used to acting, and it becomes a part of who we are, it isn't really our true selves. And so, to change yourself for the sake of other's love, is meaningless. Even if you could do it perfectly. Even if you could replace seamlessly that of someone they loved, it would be meaningless.
"I am no one. Therefore I am loved by no one."
If you try to be someone else in order to be loved, you cannot be loved. Yet if you don't try to be someone else, how can you compare to the "more perfect" version of yourself? What if you are not loved for who you are in the first place?
"And so I decided to end myself. But even if we want to end ourselves, we can't."
To change yourself, or to want to be someone else, is a form of ending yourself. But if it isn't in you already, to be someone else, then how can you?
"So we ended the others. For in then we found reflections of ourselves."
In some ways, the only way to be someone else, is to change your surroundings. A lot of people push others away from themselves in order to try and "end" themselves. And if they do... kill themselves... then they, in a way, kill those around them as well. Whether we try to or not, the half-versions of ourselves that are understood by others, becomes a part of them. We rub off on each other and we absorb small bits of the people around us. We reflect each other in our actions and thoughts. We see each other in each other because we really do pass traits and pieces of what makes us "us" on to our friends and associates and acquaintances. It can be habits and modes of expression. It can be meanings and viewpoints. But we really do pick up and give away bits of life wherever we go.
"It didn't work. In the end, the only one left was the one we wished to be rid of."
Trying to push others away just leaves you alone with yourself and makes you believe your problems are unbearable as they make up what remains of your entire world.
"That radiance. Through you, I can finally end myself. Let us end it. You and I, together."
Until, eventually, you convince yourself that death and escape is the best option. One that everyone would want.
"From birth to death the story evolves. The complete picture of who we are is only clear when our story comes to an end. So you might as well take this opportunity to skip to the end."
It is strange to realize that we are never the same person for long. We are growing and changing and maturing all the time. But that means that we literally stop being who we are... all the time. We roughly understand who we used to be, but we are no longer that person. And we will no longer be "me" a few months or years from now. It is strange and frightening how true this is. What if we become something we hate? What if we do something terrible, and worse, what if we never realize it? How can we tell? After all, the only way we can judge ourselves, is by ourselves. And what if we are wrong? What if we are wrong right now? There is no way to tell. We must be, because we keep changing, and even if one of those versions is right, that means that most of them are wrong. We die over and over again, and we never even notice it happening as we change and grow and reform what makes us "us."
"You understand now, don't you? You don't get to be with anyone. The best thing we can do for everyone is disappear forever." If you are consumed with worry for what is best for everyone else, then you can never please them perfectly. The only way that path leads is to surrender. You must find a reason within yourself to live. That reason can be to serve others as best you can, but you cannot base your existence on someone else's acceptance. They can never know you for one. You can never know them and never completely satisfy them either. But also, you have to find a greater reason to live than external opinions. It has to come from within you, or from something greater than you. A god. An ideal. A purpose. A reason. A quest. A question. "A grave. So that we are never lonely."
This makes me think of attempts to bury emotions and escape them. More literally, what has happened is the Proxy has killed or put in stasis everyone that lived in their dome. They lie, frozen in time, sleeping beneath the waters of the lake.
"You're just like me. You bring misery to everyone around you. This way is better. This way they don't suffer."
Believing that you are so worthless that all you do is harm those around you is awful. But believing that it's better to disappear so they don't suffer is worse. Instead of trying to fix the problem, you give up. Instead of trying to change yourself or do something good, you try to take leave of the problem altogether. Not to mention how little faith you have in everyone else. You act like they are forced to suffer. They have control over their own lives, and can choose how they want to live them. Taking that away from them and saying they are so incapable of dealing with the way they choose to live their own lives is self-centered and offensive. You aren't responsible for their happiness. Attempting to put them into an unfeeling coma is no way to treat them.
"I'm afraid of being alone. I'm afraid of not knowing what I am. But worse I'm afraid of finding out. And the people I want to be with will die because they are with me. If that's what I am, I might as well die too."
It is frightening to live. The future is unknown. Who you are is unknown. Who you will become is unknown. What fate will decree and give you and your friends is unknown. Is it worth it to continue on? Will there be happiness ever again? What if your finest moments have already come and gone? Why go on? The things we want most, can also destroy us. And yet... it is worth the risk.
"The proxy hoped to find acceptance from others by changing its acceptance to fill their needs. I used to think along similar lines to that. But then I met Re-L and Pino. And they came with me on this journey. And with them, I can maybe change who I really am. And if I change, maybe my understanding of life will change as well. Because of that I could never let myself die. Even if I am a Proxy."
This is it. The very things that make life fearful, are also the things that make it worth living. As we mature and change and grow, we will die. Over and over again. I do not know who I will be, or if I will be someone ... good or worthy. But with the unknown comes hope. Every fear we have, could instead be a blessing. Every time we think of a disaster, luck could smile upon us instead. We could become something twisted and ugly and insane, or we could exceed our own expectations and discover a wonderful life ahead of us. Life is never worth giving up on, no matter how bad it gets, because even if life is currently at the worst, with continued life there is that chance. That possibility. That something good could come of it.
Our lives can always change.
For better or worse.
Our perspectives can change.
And that can change everything, literally everything.

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[VIEW SPOILERS]

Ophelia
"This is my territory"
Doppelganger was the proxy of this Dome.
"An eternity of solitude"
Being a god is a lonely existence. Made all the lonelier when that becomes your goal.
"Why can't I be something worthy of love and acceptance?"
The paradox of being a God is that you cannot be loved. Love can only be given and received if there is equality. The love of a parent or a child or a disciple is not the love of a friend or of a fiance. There isn't understanding, equality, or mutual respect in the previous cases, and so it is a different type of love.
"I found if I pretended to be someone else, I could be loved."
Even a God, perfectly imitating someone else, cannot get love through trickery. Even creating beings to love it, is useless in the end. Love only has meaning when it is given by choice and through understanding.
"And so I decided to end myself. But even if we want to end ourselves, we can't."
The irony of being a God and perfect, is that you cannot die. Even if you want to, you are immortal. All powerful, and yet powerless when it comes to you own happiness and your own life.
"So we ended the others. For in then we found reflections of ourselves."
This proxy literally destroyed all the people in the dome for the sake of ending themself. If no one knew the Proxy, then perhaps they could forget itself.
"It didn't work. In the end, the only one left was the one we wished to be rid of."
"That radiance. Through you, I can finally end myself. Let us end it. You and I, together."
With another proxy to kill it, Doppelganger can finally die. This Doppelganger proxy acts like it wants to die... but instead begs Vincent to die with it.
"We're both alone. Both of us have been left behind."
This most immediately refers to Vincent being left behind by Re-L. But it also refers to the dome's citizens being "imperfect" in their love. As well as the true humans leaving the proxies behind.
V:"But there's something I need to know before I'm finished."
D:"What do you need to know."
V:"I need to know what I am."
D:"We say that, and yet we stay here. We stay here because the truth scares us."
It is a very different thing to want something, and to have the ability to pursue it.
V:"You're wrong."
D:"From birth to death the story evolves. The complete picture of who we are is only clear when our story comes to an end. So you might as well take this opportunity to skip to the end."
You can never know yourself. You are always changing, and the changing never stops until you can change no more. Even if you have done great things, you may still commit terrible crimes. Even if you have been evil, you still can earn redemption.
D:"You understand now, don't you? You don't get to be with anyone. The best thing we can do for everyone is disappear forever."
This is a belief that creation, by nature, is misery. That life is worthless. Possibilities are meaningless. And anything that is created is merely a negative occurrence. This is possibly true. But, it seems to me, that life, creation, and possibilities are an even mix of good and bad. That there is always the chance that things will get worse, or that they will get better.
D:"A grave. So that we are never lonely."
Memories are poor company, but company nonetheless.
D:"You're just like me. You bring misery to everyone around you. This way is better. This way they don't suffer."
Even if life, or someone, could literally only bring misery, their life would still not be forfeit. Life isn't about happiness. It isn't hedonistic. There are things like self improvement, exploration of this world, helping one another, creation of new things, and understanding of the universe.
V:"You did this." D:"We did this" V:"Why are you doing this to me?"D:"It pleases us to do so"V:"I don't know what to do if I'm alone."D:"We never have to be alone."
Is it possible to be pleased by misery? To revel in it, and to desire it? I think so.

V:"The proxy hoped to find acceptance from others by changing its acceptance to fill their needs. I used to think along similar lines to that. But then I met Re-L and Pino. And they came with me on this journey. And with them, I can maybe change who I really am. And if I change, maybe my understanding of life will change as well. Because of that I could never let myself die. Even if I am a Proxy."
A God's only fears would be their own beliefs about life making them miserable. Their own abandonment by everyone they care about and their own boredom and their own ultimate meaninglessness.
A god's power is comparable to our own. While a god can change reality for everyone, we can completely change the world for ourselves. We can change our perception of what is around us, whether it is via complete insanity and delusion and hallucination or more rational thoughts and decisions on how to take events. i.e.: If someone steals something of your own, you can think "the world is fundamentally cruel to do this evil unto me" or "the world is unpredictable and this just happened to occur today, next time I'll find a way to control events a little better" or "the person that stole it probably will be happier than I would be with it, I don't actually mind and it's ultimately a good thing that this happened; good luck to you unknown stranger and may luck shine on me as well." It is entirely your decision how to think and what to believe. You have that power.

[/SPOILERS]

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I don't know about you, but running around an empty city and taking advantage of everything you want whenever you want is kind of a fun dream to have. Free food! All the time in the world! No responsibilities and all of the items you ever wanted!
This is purely personal connections, but the times I can remember such a world being suggested are three: The wishes of an autistic(?) child's favorite dream in The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-time, the result of a mass migration to Jupiter in City, and and effects of a nuclear fallout which spares a small valley in Z for Zachariah. Recently I also heard read Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom and learned of the term "post-scarcity."

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Abortion and Human Value

To get to the point: abortion has to be based on something and not grounded in personal or religious reasons.

My opinion is that what gives humanity value is tied closely to ideas of intelligence, viewpoints, ideas, sentience, comprehension, thoughts and concepts. This is both why I value animals and why I value them less than humans (but more than objects, and that I value objects that contain ideas more than objects that don't etc etc). This is why I would value an alien culture and an artificial intelligence.

I also believe that the value of a human life comes from potential and different/independent life. Therefore a human that will never be able to think again is less valuable than a human that cannot think now, but is capable of it in the future. (Like... in a dreamless sleep or something.)

The combination of these two leads me to believe that abortion is reasonable practice until the child is capable of being born and living independently. Currently this date is set at something like 20-24 weeks.* (Unless complex thought begins before then, of course, and it would appear that week 17 is the earliest potential time complex thought may occur. Whatever the case, the most conservative choice for avoiding committing wrong should be selected. Within reason of course, protecting zygotes is not a good place to draw the line.)

This is not based entirely on the first value - sentience. Children are on the intelligence level comparable to animals for an extended period of time. Logically speaking, they should then have the same value, moralistically speaking. I think that this is rationally true. I still find it a repulsive idea to kill a child, more so than to kill a dog, but I believe this is for two or three reasons.

One is that I have been taught all my life that animals are less valuable than they truly are. We should be thinking of them far closer to equals than we currently do.
Secondly, I believe that children are probably treated as more valuable than they actually are. I know this sounds horrible, but it isn't saying a heck of a lot. Children are treated as the absolute perfect good. The "saintly, innocent" and so forth. They are not. They are, at the most, humans like the rest of us. They are capable of evil, mistakes, and are not perfect little angels. Since they haven't done anything yet, they are at best something akin to as valuable as the average person. It makes sense that we think of them as greater than they are for the sake of biological genetic evolutionary purposes, as well as the fact that children are loved by parents and children are not powerful enough to be feared the way adults are, but moralistically speaking, our social values of them way outstrip their true value.
Thirdly and finally, children have a huge statistical chance of becoming valuable. Way way way more so than a sperm, a zygote, a fetus, a skin cell etc. All of those are possibilities, but so very unlikely, that it is not really a reasonable response to consider them already equal morally to a human.

Therefore, as a baby in a womb matures, it gains value as its potentials become more assured and its independence (thought-wise, not literal-wise. Being the same person genetically or physically does not mean that your mind has less value) becomes more likely. This is morally why, a child at 17-24 weeks, though intrinsically no more valuable than an animal, is valuable enough to deny the right to kill it. A child only realizes it's value intrinsically once it has matured enough to be deeply sentient. This may happen not too much longer after 17 weeks, or it may only happen at 18 months or later.

If somehow a person existed that had not been allowed to think a single thought at all, and had aged until 18 or so, was hanging suspended and could be "given life" or killed... I think this would be the edge of the definition for my morality. It has all the potential with the flick of a switch, but does not yet. I think this person could be killed without breaking any moral rules. I think it would be better to permit him/her life, but not morally required to seek under all circumstances etc. I may change my mind on this, but I think what I have said is what my morality guides me to. They are, at that point, merely an empty doll made of human DNA. If they could immediately think and comprehend (had memories stored) that would be interesting, but morally speaking, the about the same as the state of a baby learning to use its mind, but in an adult body. Their potentials are the same, although the first one gains value faster... it is awkward to talk about this hypothetical, and there are more points to work on and think about, but I am relatively certain about what I have said.

I admit that consequences and situations blur the line even further. The life of a mother versus that of the child, the child having no potential to live (starving to death), the benefit to society, the balance between the child's intrinsic value increasing and the prospects for the future child being less and less optimal --- all have roles to play in such a decision. Furthermore the practical versus the ideal may change some factors as well, I'm not sure. All I can say is this is what I currently am leaning towards and why I am leaning towards it.

There are a few problems with this. It begs the question if people are then more or less valuable if they are more or less intelligent. I have a couple of responses to that - I'm just thinking of what makes someone meet the bare minimum morally speaking of valuable as a human. Past that, I think everyone is pretty much equal, morally speaking.
Secondly, intelligence is such a wide and vast thing that value is really really hard to compute. (If meaningful at all) Even if someone is not good at something, they also may have unique thoughts or combinations of thinking that is in proportions that is super different. I find value in understanding, which comes from difference more than perfection or speed or talent. Talent and speed and perfection permit insight, of course, but that is only because they allow further understanding through different or enhanced perspective. Therefore, everyone ends up basically equal morally because everyone has different thoughts and perspectives as a whole. This is by definition true. Its impossible to live the same life as anyone else, even if you have similar experiences and opinions, the combination is as unique as... is nearly as unique as it is possible to be.

Having more-different thoughts as well as having more different thoughts, I do find more valuable. Having a longer life is more valuable by extent. And an alien species that could have more unique and more insightful thoughts on just as wide a consciousness as us, would be more valuable. But these are interesting results of ideals and things that are basically impossible to measure. (Different-ness of thoughts? Creativity has been measured by how unusual or unique something a thought is, but what of value from usefulness or resonance and how about comparing once you arrive at the group of thoughts that have never been considered before... ) Practically speaking, most everyone ends up existing as equally, inherently, and very valuable this way. Including those with different brains and those called "mentally challenged" who compensate or merely exist differently. Not including those who are provably brain-dead or provably do not think for one reason or another. I don't value human biology or DNA. If someone exists without a mind, they don't have value. Even if they look and move like a human. Even if they could imitate a human. A TV containing human DNA is not valuable. I personally don't think that pain or joy is the source of value either. They can lead to or stem from values and understanding, but they are not intrinsically valuable alone.